Talk:List of symptoms in ME CFS

Neuropsychological symptoms (Canadian Consensus section)

I only just saw the edit from anonymous user User:82.209.131.203 complaining about the neuropsychological section, which includes anxiety and panic attacks as symptoms. Comments such as that belong on the Talk page for discussion rather than on the symptoms page. The entire list of symptoms from the Canadian definition comes from the Appendix 4 - you can find this on page 104 of the original - this includes the neuropsychological heading and those symptoms, so it is correctly sourced and the information does need to stay there for reference - all the CCC symptoms from the Appendix are listed without any edits. Those particular symptoms aren't in my comfort zone either, but that can happen when reporting on published research. The aim is to follow the MEpedia:Science guidelines. I notice the newer ICC which was based on the CCC doesn't include those symptoms. If there is further research stating that these symptoms were looked for but not found in particular studies then that could be added to the pages for each symptom. It is also possible that some symptoms that appear psychological in origin may turn out to have entirely physical - multiple sclerosis has depression as a core symptom for instance, as do several other neurological diseases - this seems to be direct results of neurotransmitter functions or physical functioning in the brain rather than psychological factors. Anxiety and panic attacks are not core symptoms or diagnostic indicators of M.E.. The CCC Appendix includes over 80 symptoms, most of which are not used to diagnose and because of this they are not listed on the more popular Canadian Consensus Criteria page. ~Njt (talk) 21:59, January 3, 2022 (UTC)

Old messages

Symptoms Do NOT Correlate With Criteria

If one looks at the Canadian Consensus Criteria (CCC) MEpedia page you will see that the symptoms under the criteria do not match the symptoms on this List of symptoms in ME/CFS MEpedia page. Orthostatic intolerance seems to be missing altogether on this list page as well as other symptoms AND there seem to be symptoms listed on this page not listed on the CCC page. (Perhaps these symptoms are on the referenced/cited clinical information/research on the CCC MEpedia page but, if they are they should be listed on the CCC MEpedia page.) I'm not saying they aren't symptoms, but the heading says Canadian Consensus Criteria so, it should be LISTED on the CCC page and if on the CCC page should be on this list page.

Additionally, the International Consensus Criteria (ICC) symptoms are basically the criteria copy and pasted, which is fine but it is different from how the CCC symptoms are set up. I think the entire page needs to be reworked.

Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease (SEID) isn't even listed.

Each of these pages needs to be double checked as this is where the symptoms are being pulled from.

See all: "List of symptoms in ME CFS/Canadian/XXXXXXXXXXXXX" on the Category:Signs and symptoms page. https://www.me-pedia.org/wiki/Category:Signs_and_symptoms

Reply:

Symptoms vs Diagnostic criteria

This page is not a repeat of diagnostic criteria but a more complete list of symptoms. For instance orthostatic intolerance (from the diagnostic criteria) is broken down into multiple types and symptoms in the Appendix signs and symptoms (e.g. NMH and POTS).

The list comes from Appendix 4 of the Canadian Consensus Criteria. Explanation and link to CCC diagnostic criteria have been added now.

Pediatric ICC symptoms remain missing.

Njt notjusttired (talk) 15:47, 13 January 2019 (EST)

SEID

The page is for ME/CFS symptoms, not SEID symptoms. The idea being that it will be found when searching for less common symptoms. SEID can be included but the page should be renamed. Although the United States has adopted SEID criteria it is not clear if other countries will follow and if/when research will began to use the SEID criteria.

SEID diagnostic criteria belong on three SEID page in my vote. If the page is renamed to include SEID symptoms then should it just include the SEID symptoms not in either the ICC or CCC symptom lists?

Njt notjusttired (talk) 15:47, 13 January 2019 (EST)

Use of templates and bullet points

This page includes/transcludes Templates that contain lists of symptoms.
Sometimes, the included/transcluded Template comes with bullet points, and sometimes it doesn't.
A standard needs to be chosen here. Be aware that bullet points can trigger indentation and bulleting problems in the pages that include/transclude the Template.
Perhaps the idea of included/transcluded Templates needs to be discarded, as it is hard to maintain, and doesn't really save any typing.
Pyrrhus (talk) 20:46, 23 March 2019 (EDT)

It's worth keeping the template page since they are used in multiple pages, and separately can be found by categories. The formatting largely reflects that in the original ICC or CCC. ~Njt (talk) 21:26, January 3, 2022 (UTC)