User talk:Pyrrhus

Welcome to Pyrrhus’s Talk page.
Feel free to talk with me here about MEpedia.

Just add a new comment to the end of this page, ideally using the "Add topic" tab.

You can reply to an existing comment by beginning your comment with the Horizontal Line button, or by indenting your reply using colons.

And please remember to end your comment with four tilde characters " ~ " on a line by itself, which signs your name to the comment.

Thanks!

Pyrrhus (talk) 19:13, 10 February 2019 (EST)

Easier translations
I have found a much quicker / easier way to import translations that does not involve creating code directly. It can only be done for standard messages like the pagetriage- ones. Basically it involves using and pasting in the list of system messages, saving the file and doing an import of it. It will ask for an interwiki reference - if there isn’t one “tw” could be used. Below is a last of file names to paste into the Export box. The import with Special:Import. Any missing messages are skipped. I have split them into two lists to make the import more manageable. ~Njt (talk) 23:33, October 6, 2019 (EDT)
 * User:Pyrrhus this is ready to go now, I just added a few missing from last night's import. As before, it's best to copy from the page view rather than source editor. It should import 99. Thanks ~Njt (talk) 08:17, October 8, 2019 (EDT)

mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/ar mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/ar mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/ar Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/ar mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/da mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/da mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/da Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/da mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/fi mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/fi mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/fi Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/fi mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/it mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/it mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/it Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/it mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/ja mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/ja mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/ja Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/ja mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/no mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/no mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/no Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/no MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/gl MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/tl MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/pt-br MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/it MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/ar MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/ia MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/qqq MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/ko MediaWiki:Pagetriage-tags-nonfree-desc/mk

pl onwards to export/import
mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/pl mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/pl mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/pl Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/pl mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/pt mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/pt mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/pt Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/pt mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/ru mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/ru mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/ru Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/ru mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/sv mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/sv mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/sv Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/sv mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/vi mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/vi mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/zh-hans mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/zh-hans Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/zh-hans mediawiki:Mobile-frontend-photo-upload/zh-hant mediawiki:Moodbar-action-reason-required/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-citationstyle-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-cleanupreorganise-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-condense-label/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-copyedit-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-disputed-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-externallinks-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-nonfree-descpage/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-pov-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-refimprove-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-stub-label/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-technical-desc/zh-hant mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-unbalanced-desc/zh-hant Mediawiki:pagetriage-tags-verylong-desc/zh-hant

Translations: Chinese
I just want to check on Chinese, you listed zh as a language we should translate all templates into, but I want to check if you actually mean zh-hant (Chinese traditional). I don't think there is a general "zh" for Chinese, I see zh-hant or zh-hans (Chinese Simplified) only in translatewiki. Zh-hant seems more widely used. Njt (talk) 17:52, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Hi Njt. The prioritized language codes are listed here: mepedia:All_languages_codes%23Prioritizing_languages_for_translation.  Note that I recommend zh-hans, not zh-hant.  Zh-hans is the written language used in mainland china and is understood by many chinese outside mainland china.  Zh-hant, however, is used in taiwan and is not well known on mainland china.  Zh-hant may appear to be used more, but that is only because taiwanese are more connected to the internet.  I believe the taiwanese should be able to read zh-hans as well.  That’s why I recommend zh-hans, not zh-hant.  Also note that are also two written languages for norwegian as well.  “nb” is bokmal, which is used by 80% of norwegians, and “nn” is nynorsk, which is the written language taught in schools and is used by about 20% of norwegians.  Since all norwegians should be able to understand both nb and nn, it probably doesn’t matter which we use.  Hope this helps.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 18:50, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Oh, and my father recommended some tips if you ever have to use automated translation: help:Foreign_languages%23Tips.2Fcaution_regarding_automated_translation. Hope this helps Njt.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 18:55, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * I read the opposite for Chinese, it's contradictory depending where you check online. I'm happy to do either though. If you could update the language codes referred to that would help. There is also no for Norwegian, which seems to have more translations on translatewiki.net. Can you again update for which you want using. Njt (talk) 19:03, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Njt, in that case we should probably do both zh-hans and zh-hant, so no one can say that we are choosing sides in a political matter. Note that wikipedia accepts articles in either zh-hans or zh-hant, and then does an automatic conversion to make sure that all content is available in both zh-hans and zh-hant equally.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 19:19, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Ok, Njt now I’m confused. I just set my language preference to “zh” and everything showed up in “zh-hans”.  Does MediaWiki treat “zh” as equal to “zh-hans”?
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 20:05, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Someone on Wikipedia reported the same in July, and said it should fall back to zh-hant not zh-hans. Looks like a php change for fallback languages. To be honest I don't think it's worth getting into this. We should just decide on either zh-hant or zh-hans, plus which Norwegian one we want, and go with that. Users can let us know if there's a problem, but at the moment there aren't any pages translated into those languages. Also when the LocalizationUpdate extension is installed all all missing system messages that are available will be added. We only need to check what's missing after the extension is installed, I don't know when that will be. Njt (talk) 20:38, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * That makes sense, Njt. I’ll do both zh-hans and zh-hant, but if you want to just pick one, that makes sense, too.  For norwegian, I’ll just do “no”, even though I have no idea if that means “nb” or “nn”.  Thanks for raising this!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 20:46, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * zh-hant plus no sounds good to me, with zh-hans being added (hopefully). Translatewiki has a lot of "no" translations. I have not seen any way to monitor language choices of users, but many browsers these days have Autotranslate features / extensions. Btw, the Cleanup templates will be taking some time to do, and rely on LocalizationUpdate plus some custom system messages I am creating. It's a lot of templates, a lot of languages for each, and categories for each template. So if I haven't updated the translation table it means that some aren't yet covered. Template_talk:Cleanup contains a lot of the new system message names, some like the Lqt_noreason just say non-specific things like "No reason given" and belong to am extension we don't plan to install. It means far less mistakes than the Google translate nightmare.  Njt (talk) 20:58, September 25, 2019 (EDT)
 * Sounds good! Thanks!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 21:19, September 25, 2019 (EDT)

System message suggestions -- notjusttired (talk) 16:21, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
notjusttired (talk) 16:21, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * 1) MediaWiki:Inputbox-searchfulltext translations already exist on MEpedia, this could be used for the Search everywhere box in the home page, if the English and English British ones were updated new the new wording.
 * 2) MediaWiki:Inputbox-tryexact transnational already exist for the second search button
 * Great finds! We should definitely use these!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 22:47, August 15, 2019 (EDT)


 * 1) mediawiki:Gettingstarted-lightbulb-heading could be used for "Pages in need" translations https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gettingstarted-lightbulb-heading/fr
 * 2) MediaWiki:Externalguidance-machine-translation-contribute-link - Learn how to contribute - or MediaWiki:Externalguidance-specialpage-contribute-title Ways to contribute could be used for "How to contribute" - I can't see any translation for that so I assume it's not translated right now


 * Are you in favor of getting the LocalizationUpdate extension installed? It will automatically grab all translations for any system message we add in English, as long as we don't change the English wording. notjusttired (talk) 14:55, August 23, 2019 (EDT)
 * Ooh, that mediawiki:Gettingstarted-lightbulb-heading is a great find, let's definitely use all of those! I have added the LocalisationUpdate script to the DRAFT Developer tasks for the next round of developer tasks.  I don't know how much of a load on the server the LocalisationUpdate script is, so I'll request it to run nightly, but we can also run it weekly if it causes performance problems. notjusttired
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 21:22, August 27, 2019 (EDT)
 * Translations won't be updated that often. I think it best to run the task interactively the first time, after that weekly at most. It will only grab messages that we already have an English version of. notjusttired (talk) 16:35, September 4, 2019 (EDT)

System messages to use
Instead of creating new system messages, these already exist on MEpedia and could be useful


 * MediaWiki:Toc instead of Contents
 * MediaWiki:aboutsite - it already contains this - About
 * MediaWiki:Popularpages - Popular pages
 * MediaWiki:Externalguidance-specialpage-contribute-title - already exists, could be used for Become an editor headings even though the wording is different
 * MediaWiki:Qbbrowse - can be used for Browse
 * mediawiki:Noarticletext - already in use but needs customizing - find a string to replace? Just add a simple link at the end to go to the Article outlines?

Despite the fact the pages come up as red links all these already exist as system messages.

I haven't checked if these have translations, and I don't know which system message contains the disclaimer about medical advice or the heading message we customize. With the heading message, we can keep it in English so it's always up to update.

notjusttired (talk) 17:44, August 15, 2019 (EDT)


 * Great finds! Let's definitely use these!  However, I can't find MediaWiki:Externalguidance-specialpage-contribute-title.  Where did you see this one?  I saw MediaWiki:Qbbrowse before, but it's magically disappeared now!  Oh well, we can import those two from MediaWiki if we have to.  As for the other customized interface messages, I will add them to the table in MEpedia:User interface translation.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 22:57, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Both are on Commons - Externalguidance-specialpage-contribute-title qbbrowse
 * Some system messages can't be exported with Special:Export because they come from extra language files added by particular extensions. The translations for those either need to be found by searching then adding one by one, or by finding the extension source code - but normally they are in over a dozen separate files eg en.json, de.json - I don't know an easy way to import from json either. notjusttired (talk) 15:05, August 23, 2019 (EDT)
 * Yeah, I noticed that too! Fortunately, the extension developers typically use translatewiki.net to create those .json files, so you may be able to export the messages from translatewiki.net.  What I did for the sidebar translations was to first create an XML file by exporting from translatewiki.net, and then I did a find-and-replace to change the extension message names to our own message names: “qbbrowse” becomes “browse”, “Externalguidance-specialpage-contribute-title” becomes “become_an_editor”, etc.  This way, if the extension developer later changes the message, it won’t affect us.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 18:20, August 28, 2019 (EDT)

Translating ND/NC License Templates
Please check - these are new system messages to add in German, French, Spanish plus I thought it worth adding Dutch, English examples above. All wording comes from the relevant Creative Commons license page, or from pasting the correct link and license name over the top of an existing SA or CC-BY message for that language. I *might* be able to morph these into a XML file for importing so they won't need doing individually. I'm finding this is using a lot of concentration to do. CC-BY-SA-4.0 messages don't exist in Spanish (installing that Localization extension would create them for us, plus any others that are missing). I need to check these for invisible characters too notjusttired (talk) 08:08, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okey dokey. I will check all these today or tomorrow and try to put together an XML file.  Thanks User:Notjusttired for all your hard work!  I will also add a draft developer task to run the LocalisationUpdate maintenance script to retrieve translations from translatewiki.net.  (The LocalisationUpdate extension came bundled with our MediaWiki software.)
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 14:07, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * I think it's worth holding off on those for the moment. I've asked User:JaimeS to look at our choice on copyright licenses to confirm if we are keeping the Non-commercial and No-Derivs - it turns out we are only using then for 3 files at the moment. Plus asked her about continuing with the "Used with permission" exceptions - mostly used for advocates uploading selfies plus Millions Missing type photos. I had a quick look into the XML files. Looks easier than I thought - but would be important to run through an online XML validator before trying to import.
 * What about the extra system messages you created for the 3 languages for Donate? You or I could put together a long (very long) list of pages names to cover those for all languages, so they can be exported (those that exist). notjusttired (talk) 17:38, August 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * Okay, I'll hold off on these until you say otherwise. I found this message for "donate", but it's only translated into a few languages: MediaWiki:project-localized-name-donatewiki.  I guess we should double-check that all these messages are really fully translated...
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 23:23, August 15, 2019 (EDT)

wm-license-cc-by-nd-4.0-text This file is licensed under the |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/ Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International] license.

wm-license-cc-by-nd-4.0-text/de Diese Datei ist lizenziert unter der |Creative-Commons-Lizenz [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/deed.de „Namensnennung - Keine Bearbeitungen 4.0 International“.]

wm-license-cc-by-nd-4.0-text/es Este archivo se encuentra bajo la licencia |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/deed.es_ES Reconocimiento-SinObraDerivada 4.0 Internacional].

wm-license-cc-by-nd-4.0-text/fr Ce fichier est sous la licence |Créative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/deed.fr Attribution - Pas de Modification 4.0 International].

wm-license-cc-by-nd-4.0-text/nl Dit bestand is gelicenseerd onder de |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/deed.nl Naamsvermelding-GeenAfgeleideWerken 4.0 Internationaal] licentie.

wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-header NoDerivatives wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-header/de Keine Bearbeitungen wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-header/es SinObraDerivada wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-header/fr Pas de modifications wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-header/nl GeenAfgeleideWerken —

wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-text If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material. wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-text/de Wenn Sie das Material remixen, verändern oder darauf anderweitig direkt aufbauen, dürfen Sie die bearbeitete Fassung des Materials nicht verbreiten. wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-text/es Si remezcla, transforma o crea a partir del material, no puede difundir el material modificado. wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-text/fr Dans le cas où vous effectuez un remix, que vous transformez, ou créez à partir du matériel composant l'Oeuvre originale, vous n'êtes pas autorisé à distribuer ou mettre à disposition l'Oeuvre modifiée. wm-license-cc-conditions-no_derivs-text/nl Je mag het veranderde materiaal niet verspreiden als je het werk hebt geremixt, veranderd, of op het werk hebt voortgebouwd.

Same again but Non-commercial (we only have files in the v4.0 category so I haven't done the others, although they are currently options to choose). wm-license-cc-by-nc-4.0-text This file is licensed under the |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International] license.

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-header NonCommercial

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-text You may not use the material for commercial purposes.

wm-license-cc-by-nc-4.0-text/de Diese Datei ist lizenziert unter der |Creative-Commons-Lizenz [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/deed.de „Namensnennung-Nicht kommerziell 4.0 International“.]

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-header/de Nicht kommerziell

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-text/de Sie dürfen das Material nicht für kommerzielle Zwecke nutzen.

wm-license-cc-by-nc-4.0-text/es Este archivo se encuentra bajo la licencia |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/deed.es Atribución-NoComercial 4.0 Internacional].

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-header/es NoComercial

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-text/es Usted no puede hacer uso del material con propósitos comerciales.

wm-license-cc-by-nc-4.0-text/fr |Créative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/deed.fr Attribution - Pas d’Utilisation Commerciale 4.0 International].

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-header/fr Pas d’Utilisation Commerciale

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-text/fr Vous n'êtes pas autorisé à faire un usage commercial de cette Oeuvre, tout ou partie du matériel la composant.

wm-license-cc-by-nc-4.0-text/nl Dit bestand is gelicenseerd onder de |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/deed.nl Naamsvermelding-NietCommercieel 4.0 Internationaal] licentie.

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-header/nl NietCommercieel

wm-license-cc-conditions-noncommercial-text/nl Je mag het werk niet gebruiken voor commerciële doeleinden.

Same again, but nothing needed for the lower part of the license since it just lists both Non-commercial and No-Derivs, which already exist wm-license-cc-by-nc-nd-4.0-text This file is licensed under the |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International] license.

wm-license-cc-by-nc-nd-4.0-text/de Diese Datei ist lizenziert unter der |Creative-Commons-Lizenz [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/deed.de „Namensnennung - Nicht kommerziell - Keine Bearbeitungen 4.0 International“.]

wm-license-cc-by-nc-nd-4.0-text/es Este archivo se encuentra bajo la licencia |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/deed.es Atribución-NoComercial-SinDerivadas 4.0 Internacional].

wm-license-cc-by-nc-nd-4.0-text/fr |Créative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/deed.fr Attribution - Pas d'Utilisation Commerciale - Pas de Modification 4.0 International].

wm-license-cc-by-nc-nd-4.0-text/nl Dit bestand is gelicenseerd onder de |Creative Commons [//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/deed.nl Naamsvermelding-NietCommercieel-GeenAfgeleideWerken 4.0 Internationaal] licentie.

Persistent Infection Page
So great to see you here! I think it would be useful to create a page on persistent infection that has sections re: the ways (and evidence) for persistent infection in different families of viruses (and perhaps other pathogens) that also links to the main pages for those viruses. We could use this page: https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Persistent_infection_hypothesis or create a page on persistent infection that is a bit broader and not specifically about the evidence for/against its role in ME/CFS. I propose the latter. https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Persistent_infection --JenB (talk) 09:53, 20 February 2019 (EST)


 * Good to see you back! I'll take your suggestion and go with the latter page.  Please be patient, it may take me a while, but I'll get there eventually.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 22:09, 20 February 2019 (EST)

Collapsing lists
Hey, I noticed your query about collapsing lists and thought I'd leave you some links with info about formatting those in source editor as well as Wikipedia guidance on using them or not. It's not my area of expertise but generally speaking, I believe WP recommends against using them in mainspace (unless the collapsed/hidden info is truly only supplementary rather than essential to the topic) because of some accessibility issues, and that instead it's best to split off pages when lists become unwieldy. So that would recommend for making the Contents page into a clean list of major overhead categories, and then each would have a subpage. But, like I say, not usually among the questions I deal with so, yes, in case the details here can be of any use: Hope that may be of help! Canele (talk) 19:25, 10 April 2019 (EDT)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Collapsing
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Scrolling_lists_and_collapsible_content
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility
 * Wow, that’s incredibly helpful! Thanks!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 19:38, 10 April 2019 (EDT)
 * My pleasure! (Truth is I have considerably more wiki than ME/CFS expertise so if I can help out at least on that score, in terms of tools for organizing information and starting up basic pages that people with more scientific expertise may be able to come along behind and fill in a little more easily, well I'm just glad I can make a contribution.) Canele (talk) 00:56, 11 April 2019 (EDT)
 * Hi. Some time ago I copied collapsible list templates from several other wikis. It was a total nightmare to get them working to be honest but there's an example here:
 * Common_symptoms_in_ME/CFS
 * If they look expanded rather than collapsed by default then check my user CSS - it needed a few extra styles adding, I requested these to be added to the site Common.css but I can't remember if they were done or not. There's a similar thing on Template:Read_more - I was hoping to use it to partially hide the Quote field in certain references. The quote field might well increase visits since some of them are pretty controversial. E.g. Wessely contradicting his previous work then reverting back depending on the audience.
 * A search for Templates created in the last year will come up with a lot of those recently copied from WikiMedia's Commons or Wikipedia if you are looking for extra features. notjusttired (talk) 19:16, 11 April 2019 (EDT)
 * Thanks, Njt! That's certainly helpful.  Sorry it was such a nightmare to get the collapsible lists working.  But you gave me some good sources to investigate! Thanks.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 20:07, 11 April 2019 (EDT)

Citoid version -- notjusttired (talk) 05:42, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
Hi. Can you explain how Citoid fixed work? Does the extension need updating to include them? How do we know which patches / fixes need a code update and which are for an external service? I noticed some fixed are labeled as waiting for deploy  notjusttired (talk) 05:42, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * I can share my understanding, but my understanding may be incomplete:


 * There is an external citoid server which performs the actual conversion from URL to citation.
 * The citoid extension mostly exists just to connect the VisualEditor to the external citoid server.
 * The default citoid server that the citoid extension connects to is probably https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/#!/Citation/getCitation but I'm not sure about that. Thanks to the Wikimedia Foundation for providing this free service.
 * Zotero is a non-profit that develops citation management software that includes a "Translation server" to convert URL's to citations.
 * Wikimedia Foundation has adapted Zotero's "Translation server" as the code for the citoid server.
 * Although the non-profit Zotero frequently updates their "Translation server", Wikimedia Foundation doesn't implement the updates that frequently. More info: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid/Determining_if_a_URL_has_a_translator_in_Zotero
 * Wikimedia Foundation currently stores their citoid server code on Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/62/
 * I assume that when a bug on Phabricator is moved from "Waiting for deploy" to "Resolved", it means that the fix has been deployed from Phabricator to the external citoid server.
 * The Citoid extension should only be updated when the MediaWiki software itself is updated, as each version of MediaWiki requires its own version of the citoid extension.
 * Hope this helps
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 23:34, July 17, 2019 (EDT)

Changes to Primers
Thanks for making clarity changes on the Primers. There are five Primers and if you could make the changes to all five, that would be helpful.

Primer for doctors and researchers

Primer for family, friends and care providers

Primer for journalists

Primer for patients

Primer for the public

--77.111.245.5 18:04, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Thanks for letting me know!

I'll go do that, and in the future I'll make changes to all 5 primers as appropriate.

Thanks.

Pyrrhus (talk) 18:45, 15 February 2019 (EST)

Add topic re updates
I made the changes you requested. Let me know if everything is to your liking. The programming work you have been doing has been outstanding! Thanks so much Kmdenmark (talk) 18:02, 17 May 2019 (EDT)

Donate button and footer bleed
Can you copy these to your pivot.css and see if they work on desktop / larger screens? Donate seems fine to me, I'm less sure on the footer bleed issue. Thanks notjusttired (talk) 08:03, 20 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Thanks User:Notjusttired! For some reason, the MediaWiki software refuses to recognize my pivot.css page as CSS code.  Maybe I need the "editmycssjs" right given(?)  Did you ever receive this user right?  Or is the MediaWiki software just confused?
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 20:28, 20 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Never mind! I just went to Special:ChangeContentModel to specify that my pivot.css page is CSS code. Now I can see that the Donate button looks like a button again! Thanks!  (But the footer still bleeds left.)
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 20:32, 20 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Strange problem with the CSS! Does the footer bleed less than before? How many characters wide is the box that bleeds? notjusttired (talk) 04:38, 21 May 2019 (EDT)
 * I just edited the footer code below, which should hopefully fix the issue. The powered by mediawiki logo I'm going to hide too. notjusttired (talk) 13:28, 21 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Thanks User:Notjusttired! The change doesn’t seem to have affected the footer row, it still bleeds as before :(
 * I love the idea of hiding the second column in that footer row, the column containing “Powered by MediaWiki”. That should give the first column more space to expand.
 * The first column in that footer row uses unordered lists to display the lines, which makes the text vertically long. Do you know if there is any CSS hack to make the list items display with inline flow, so the list items stack horizontally?
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 15:22, 21 May 2019 (EDT)
 * I guess try using !important on the footer margins (as below). If that doesn't work I'm stumped... although removing the background color/setting to the same as the side bar would probably make it look ok. I haven't been able to remove the "poweredbyico" - I think it needs doing in LocalSettings.php - but I am not sure if the space will be freed up that way. It might be better to put the MEAction logo in that space. There is a "hlist" class we already have for horizontal lists. I think it's in MediaWiki:Common.css, but you really would want to adapt that to use something other than commas to space things out. This hlist template could be copied over, we don't use our existing hlist template. To be honest though, Wikipedia and mediawiki look messy even on small screens. notjusttired (talk) 15:54, 21 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Thanks User:Notjusttired! I'll try that.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Holy S**t, User:Notjusttired! That fixed it.  Just adding "!important" made the footer no longer bleed into the sidebar!  Great hack!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 16:20, 21 May 2019 (EDT)

/* fix footer bleed by fixing negative padding  */ footer { margin-left: 0!important; margin-right: 0!important;}

/* make donate look like button */ margin-left: 0.25em; } display:inline-block; }
 * 1) n-donate {
 * 1) n-donate a {

Centering footer
Powered by was actually under the test of the footer and is finally hidden. Disclaimers and Cookie statement had both been given a line each, I've moved them to the same line. They don't seem to join with the previous line though. Adding some centering too. The footer always begins right of the sidebar too. notjusttired (talk) 17:33, 21 May 2019 (EDT)

padding-right: 2rem; display: inline; text-align: center; }  display: inline; text-align: center; } /* removed powered by mediawiki - which has several different names oddly */ .poweredby { display:none; } /* center block - won't overlap sidebar */ display: inline-block; width: 100%!important; text-align: center; padding-right:8px; }
 * 1) footer-developers,
 * 2) footer-cookiestatement {
 * 1) footer-left,
 * 2) footer-places,
 * 3) footer-disclaimers,
 * 4) footer-privacypolicy,
 * 5) footer-about {
 * 1) footer-poweredbyico,
 * 2) footer-poweredby,
 * 1) footer-left {


 * This looks great, User:Notjusttired! Could you take a look at the CSS I am testing? (Below). Maybe this can be merged with the code above? I’m still not sure if I like the footer text centered or not... Thanks!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 19:38, 21 May 2019 (EDT)

/* UNTESTED CODE */

/* make donate look like button */ margin-left: 0.25em; } display:inline-block; }
 * 1) n-donate {
 * 1) n-donate a {

/* center donate button in sidebar */ text-align: center; }
 * 1) n-donate {

/* fix footer bleed by fixing negative padding  */ footer { margin-left: 0!important; margin-right: 0!important;}

/* expand footer-left and hide footer-right */ display: none; } width: 100%; }
 * 1) footer-right-icons {
 * 1) div-footer-left {

/* make text lines into a paragraph */ li#footer-lastmod, li#footer-viewcount { float: left; margin-right: 0.5em; }

/* make links all in a row */ li#footer-privacy, li#footer-about, li#footer-disclaimer, li#footer-developers, li#footer-cookiestatement { float: left; margin-right: 2em; }

/* center footer text */ ul#footer-left { text-align: center; }

/* END UNTESTED CODE */

Disambiguation template and __DISAMBIG__
Hi. The disambiguation template already includes the magic word __DISAMBIG__ so there's no need to add it. A page containing means add the contents of the disambiguation page, including any magic words that are in it. (Three curly brackets around something pass a parameter value into any templates, in case you see that. notjusttired (talk) 09:03, 24 May 2019 (EDT)
 * Excellent, that’s good to know! I’ll go fix the documentation to make it clear that only the  is required.  Thanks for catching that!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 12:39, May 24, 2019 (EDT)

-- notjusttired (talk) 21:08, June 2, 2019 (EDT)
Hi. Check out MediaWiki_talk:Vector.css - now with the "What is this page?" info put in a template. Any template can be added to a page using - just like you would if marking a page as a stub. The remaining bits are the parameters (values passed in that control what it does) eg  would use a template called "lowercase" and pass it the parameter  (1 - with 3 curly brackets) - which would have the value HELLO. Some templates to check out are Template:Tmbox and Template:imbox - of documentation is missing you can find it on the same pages at wikimedia Commons or Wikipedia. Anything in the "noinclude" tags is not displayed - so that's a great place to add categories or instructions. Advantages are less repeateding of the same info, so easier to update just one version, and easier to skip over the template description of you know what it does, and they can automatically be added to categories at the same time. Also - with CSS there is also the option to have user css. Hope this is helpful. notjusttired (talk) 21:08, June 2, 2019 (EDT)
 * I saw that! Very cool!  I read the doc on Imbox, it could come in very helpful.  Thanks for the great info!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 23:36, June 2, 2019 (EDT)

Pivot code
If you have time can you give this a test. Should change small screens to call the website #MEPEDIA not MEPEDIA. Also a small layout change for main page too. Thanks for your last feedback on pivot. Many changes to follow yet on Timeless - mostly for editing tools and pages used by editors. Surprisingly timeless does not allow mobile users to edit on Wikipedia - lots of layout issues for mobiles. notjusttired (talk) 19:34, June 9, 2019 (EDT)
 * Done. The “#” is showing up correctly.  Haven’t noticed any changes on the main page, but I’m not sure what I should be looking for...
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 19:15, June 10, 2019 (EDT)

section#middle-nav .title a::before { content: "#"; font-family: Oswald, sans-serif; font-style: italic; font-variant: normal; margin-right: -0.15em; }

.mw-body li.gallerybox div.thumb { padding: 0; }

/* main page centering contents list in wikitable at top */

.wikitable > * th > p { text-align: center; }

out of date extensions -- notjusttired (talk) 07:06, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
Some particular ones that look worth upgrading: These seem worth doing before the upgrade of MediaWiki. Obviously there's an argument for updating every extension to the latest version rather than just these. Most include many translation or localization updates. Some are clearly going to be very low priority. Most date from September 2017 - Special:Version Thoughts? 07:06, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
 * citoid (possibly wait for next release)
 * codeeditor - icon changes that look relevant to the mobile improving I'm making on skins, use WikiEditor toggle tool
 * disambiguator - remove disambiguator pages from Special:AncientPages
 * scribunto - works the Lua modules, although I don't see any particular bug fix that's relevant
 * categorytree - fix categories with numeric names, this extension is key for searches etc although didn't see any important fix
 * parserfunctions - really key extension used in many templates
 * graph - icon changes and other fixes, I think this is worth doing
 * templatedata - don't see anything worth updating this for but obviously it's well used
 * hitcounter - number of views out if date
 * pagesimages - images not always showing
 * smitespam - couldn't see any particular change, User:Kmdenmark mentioned it often flags images but an upgrade may not fix this
 * dismissablesitnotice - use session storage instead of cookies
 * Any extension with a “compatibility policy” of “release branches” must be updated with any new version of MediaWiki. These include Echo, Scribunto, TemplateData, PageImages, Citoid, VisualEditor. So we can't update those extensions until we update the MediaWiki software.
 * Some of the others might be worth updating but since they released MediaWiki version 1.33 they are no longer offering downloads for our version of MediaWiki, so these will also have to wait until MEdiaWiki is updated. (I don't think codeeditor or smitespam are important enough to update.)  Hope this helps.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 23:58, July 17, 2019 (EDT)

Pages in need - Articles needing an image
Articles needing an image is currently not helpful / too hard to see what's important or what to focus on. I thought it might be helpful to split this page into sections by main category (researchers, treatments etc) and have longest pages listed first.

I wondered if you wanted to update this, link to escape codes below. Perhaps the first 10 longest posts at the top of the page, then subheadings for researchers, potential treatments, etc, the contents would let people jump to the category they are interested in User:Notjusttired
 * I don’t understand what you’re trying to say/ask, so I copied your code to the page: Category:Articles that need an image or photo. I hope that’s what you meant.
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 22:14, August 9, 2019 (EDT)

Translations to check -- notjusttired (talk) 19:20, August 23, 2019 (EDT)
I think I remember you you speak some German or other languages. If you are able to check any of these that would be great. Particularly I wouldn't want them to accidentally read "no cleanup has been specified / provided " - they should say "" and be part of the message on the cleanup template, underneath "this page may require a cleanup". I don't remember which languages you speak so have included them all  notjusttired (talk) 19:20, August 23, 2019 (EDT)


 * I'm not a native speaker of any of those, but if I had to translate it into spanish and german myself, I would say:


 * Spanish: No se proporcionó ninguna razón para las correcciones.
 * German: Es wurde kein Grund für die Korrektur angegeben.
 * Hope this helps!
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 21:51, August 27, 2019 (EDT)

Category split
Hi, I have opened a discussion at Category talk:People with ME, CFS, and/or FMS. Guido den Broeder (talk) 20:40, September 2, 2019 (EDT)

Teamwork
Hi, it is probably worth mentioning somewhere that the ME/CVS-Stichting, the ME/cvs Vereniging and the Steungroep ME en Arbeidsongeschiktheid usually work in concert. (That way they get 3-6 people at the table to one or none from the ME Vereniging Nederland, rendering ME advocacy in the Netherlands an uphill battle.) Guido den Broeder (talk) 05:26, September 12, 2019 (EDT)

upload of language file -- Kmdenmark (talk) 15:40, September 12, 2019 (EDT)
The file upload worked!!!!! (Hopefully) Let me know if this meets your needs. Kmdenmark (talk) 15:40, September 12, 2019 (EDT)

Guidelines and policies -- Njt (talk) 21:56, September 20, 2019 (EDT)
Hi. A number of different templates, system messages and possibly Modules refer to Category:MEpedia guidelines, or possibly Category:MEpedia documentation - can we instead just add new policies to the existing guidelines instead? Or list then there. It will be a lot of work to find all the links and will take some time to get everything working without it. Njt (talk) 21:56, September 20, 2019 (EDT)
 * Hi Njt. The template, messages, etc that I know of that link to guidelines probably don't need to refer to our policies as well.  Policies are generally legal/bureaucratic matters, unrelated to routine editing issues.  Can you think of any templates, messages, etc that would need to refer to policies?  I thought about creating a combined "Guidelines and policies" category, but decided against it because people don't need to constantly refer back to the policies like they have to refer back to the guidelines.  I have created links to our policies category from the guidelines category and from the tutorial, so the policies should be easy to find from there if need be.  Maybe I'll add a link from the Help category as well.  But I am certainly open to considering other alternatives...
 * Oh, and by the way, I changed Module:Asbox so that stubs in the "Help:" and "MEpedia:" namespaces are finally also added to the "Stubs" category! After the DynamicPageList 24-hour delay, they should begin showing up in lists of stub pages...
 * Pyrrhus (talk) 22:22, September 20, 2019 (EDT)
 * Sounds good! For some reason I thought you were renaming the guidelines categories rather than the policies. Btw: I have found a system message translation for "stub" at last, although we've done several languages already . XML import works so I think that will keep me busy for a while. Njt (talk) 19:14, September 21, 2019 (EDT)